What a farce

[guest]

After last night's meeting I am seriously considering my position as a club secretary. It has become a total joke and farce. Pontyclun and Risca rightly or wrongly won their appeals so good luck to them but for other clubs to vote against the FAW and what everyone voted for by a clear majority last year I hope you are all happy that the season will be delayed.
So last year clubs went through virtually the whole season fighting to stay out the bottom 5,7 and 9 and now you have proposed we do it all again. We will be in the same position next year with people appealing, on the grounds of this year's farce.

IF all you clubs wanted the season to start on time you would have backed the other 20 clubs that voted for the proposal and then we would have been playing on time. Instead we will all be playing more friendlies and clubs will not have important finances coming in and you could even see one or two clubs go bust due to lack of income/sponsors.

[Counting Crows]

Instead we will all be playing more friendlies and clubs will not have important finances coming in and you could even see one or two clubs go bust due to lack of income/sponsors.

How can a club go bust by not playing matches? Surely it's the playing of (competitive) matches that costs money

But yes, you're right, it's a right mess. Perhaps the FAW can second some staff to the WL to help them sort out a proper restructure/ground inspection programme. They did it with the WPL without a hitch.

[westwalian]

I was led to believe that the Agenda for last night's meeting included item 2

To confirm promotion and relegation between Divisions and the election of clubs, in accordance with League Rules and Pyramid regulations.

This is what was sent out and read out by Ken Tucker last night.

Let me remind clubs of our rules below taken off the Welsh League website.

2. CONSTITUTION
There shall be a Division One, Two and Three. The number of Clubs in each Division to be at the discretion of the Management Committee.

5. PROMOTION AND RELEGATION
At the end of each season's Competition, subject to the FAW. Pyramid Regulations the Club in each Division scoring the largest number of points shall be declared the Champion Club of that Division, three points being counted for each game won and one point for each game drawn. Should two or more Clubs be equal in points, the Club having the best goal difference shall be declared the Division Champions. The last three Clubs in each Division shall be ascertained in a similar manner. In the event of goal difference being equal, the Club scoring the most goals will gain precedence in relation to the top three and last three.
The three highest Clubs in Division Two shall take the place of the three lowest Clubs in Division One. The three highest Clubs in Division Three shall take the place of the three lowest Clubs in Division Two. The three lowest Clubs in Division Three may be relegated to Feeder Leagues immediately below, within the Pyramid system. The Clubs from the Feeder Leagues will become automatic Members of the League, provided they are declared the Champions, and have obtained the required ground criteria. The runner-up in a Feeder League will also be eligible for consideration if the champion Clubs do not meet the criteria. No more than three Clubs to be promoted in any one season. If there are insufficient Clubs eligible for promotion into the League the Management Committee will decide any relegation issue. The Club Winning Division One will be promoted to the Welsh Premier League provided it wishes to do so, and has the required ground standard. If the Club winning Division One, declines promotion, or does not meet the required ground criteria, the Runner-up may be promoted, provided they meet the ground criteria. Depending on the geographical position, a Club, or Clubs, relegated from the Welsh Premier League.

From notice the Management committee are shirking their responsibilities, as it states in our rules the number of clubs are at their discretion.

Now they can bounce blame on member clubs.


Secondly, rule 5 states 3 up 3 down, so there was no real debate necessary, if the notice of Agenda was adhered to.

There is no mention of relegating more than 3 clubs from any division.

Our rules had not been changed during season 2009/2010, so really we had no choice.

So taking that into account, the FAW should ratify the clubs proposal of last night, as they obviously were aware of the Agenda for last night's meeting.

[Huw Jones]

last nite was well a waste of time, Club Sec I can understand your frustration but it was always going to happen, clubs will vote for the benefit of their clubs the symantics of all sticking together goes out of the window and why not.
I did I voted to adopt the FAW rec of 16,16,18 not wanting to go through all this again next season, selfish maybe but im being honest.Was summed up last nite when I heard a club official say im not bothering to vote cos it doesnt affect us we cant go up or down ...crazy
I personally know a few of the managment commitee and like us they work damn hard for little, no reward, but the voting last nite was a shambles.Room was far too small, no Mic, why didnt we have voting cards with the club name on , that way only one vote per club not sure that was the case last nite.
couldnt the managment Commitee have got a ruling from the FAW BEFORE last nite meet, in my mind the vote was always going go that way..on we go then

[guest]

How can a club go bust by not playing matches? Surely it's the playing of (competitive) matches that costs money


So clubs don't have other bills to pay. We don't all play at Cwmbran Stadium and the pitch looked after for us. It costs more to run a club than just turn up on a Saturday and play.

Your club voted to come out of the Welsh Pyramid, whats your views on that?

[Guest]

Has anyone actually bothered to think about the implications of what you lot voted for last night?

If the season gets delayed and not starting until September we are looking at potentially being 6 or 7 games behind by the time it all starts because we are losing the 3 weeks worth of light nights which allow mass midweek games.

Last Season we saw Pontardawe, Abertillery, Croesyceiliog and Caerau to name but a few playing 3 games a week for several weeks in a row to get the games completed and still only just managed it by the end of May.

Add another 7 fixtures into that equation and you are looking at a completely untennable position this time around. Add that to the possibility of bottom 9, 7 & 5 going down. Is it fair that a team having to play 3/4 games a week whilst fighting for their lives despite being only in mid table?

The league cup last season was won by a small club who overcame some big fish to achieve it. They were one of the teams who had a nonsensical number of games to play from April onwards. Add another 7 games into that and what do you have? Probably a relegated team I would think! I would also hazard a guess that the team in question will "not try as hard" this year in defence of their cup knowing the troubles they are going to have later on if they dare win any games in it this time around.

The pressure on us all to win Welsh Cup games, with all the money that brings this year with the bigger prize pot (and extra round for some of us) will be a problem. Clubs without lights will, if the season is delayed, have to make the decision to "get themselves out" of the competition. There will be soap box sitters who claim no team ever goes out to intentionally lose - and this is true - but you will see team selections reflecting that the cups will be devalued this year to clubs without lights. For clubs like Pontardawe, Abertillery and Aberbargoed who all last year had massive fixture pile ups it is simply not an option to risk having to play 4 games a week for 5 or 6 weeks to get the games played - and what culd be the difference between going up and going down in such crazy relegation circumstances.

Football is about teams, players and clubs essentially. Give a thought to the players in all of this. Most of them do not receive a penny and we are knowingly forcing them into a scenario where they will be expected to give up their time 4 times a week at the end of the season. Completely unacceptable and all for the sake of some saving their own skin and others for falsely and frankly idiotically claiming they do not care because it does not affect them (I too heard that statement) It affects us all and if you cannot see that there is something considerably wrong with you! If it does not affect you, how is it then that YOUR season too will be delayed! I personally really hope that the man concerned has 2 good cup runs this season and ends up with the most unimaginable fixture pile up to manage!

As well as myself I know of several other club officials in the league who are considering whether to carry on.

Shame on all of you who did not get this farce ended once and for all last night! Shame on you!

[Counting Crows]

Jul 27, 2010 13:10:48 GMT 1 guest said:

So clubs don't have other bills to pay. We don't all play at Cwmbran Stadium and the pitch looked after for us. It costs more to run a club than just turn up on a Saturday and play.

Your club voted to come out of the Welsh Pyramid, whats your views on that?

Are you suggesting your gate receipts cover your bills? And playing home games bring you a profit? Bloody hell, you must be the luckiest club in the league!!

You want Cwmbran Stadium? You can have it! We'd rather have our own ground to look after and develop - it would be cheaper.

I didn't know my club voted to leave the pyramid, but i'll take your word for it cos you sound like a trustworthy fellow.

My view? I wouldn't want to leave the pyramid. What's the point in winning a division if there's no promotion/Euro qualification?

[guest]

16, 16, 18! thats the way it should stay and lets get on with it! for gods sake all this bloody griping is getting everybody down. Get the fixtures done and lets start playing. If the league has a problem with getting around the grounds to inspect ground criteria then ask for volunteers, i will certainly put my name down to do a few. We are fast becoming a laughing stock and thats due to clubs who under performed on the pitch as well as off it and cant accept that. simple as!

[Sec]

What all have to consider hear is Welsh League Clubs 30 to 20 decided on status Quo for this season and that now has to go back to the FAW who will accept or reject?
If accepted then we start as planned and then as suggested look at the reduction from the end of the season.

[westwalian]

For a change over a nice pint of bow and a glass of wine for the woman I discussed this awful mess we are in.

She has been about since my children were young playing football.

I explained as much as I know about the strategic plan without looking on the FAW website to expand.

As she said, "If they say you need to reduce your divisions to 16 by 2013, they probably meant you should do this over the 4 years allowed"

A woman talking sense.

If we were given 4 years, why have we not taken advantage of that?

Looking at our league.

Normally we do not have requests from the WEst Wales FA for clubs to enter our league.

So 4 clubs could go if we still relegated 3 clubs regardless. Not unreasonable. If you are in the bottom 3, out you go.

Then we would only have to get rid of 2 clubs over a 4 year period. Not unreasonable.

Now that has been reduced to 3 years.

3 naturally, if no West Wales clubs apply, and 4 clubs being relegated rather than 3 each season for the next three seasons.

Leaving us with 48 clubs.

Hey, my missus is a genius.

[Guest]

You voted 27 20 in favour ON THE THIRD ATTEMPT!!!

Under performing teams voting to save their own skins via the back door!

[football fan]

No words can describe the mess welsh football is in,
no fixtures no hope not a clue, across the bridge there laughing at us and all down to teams who have squirmed they way out of relegation via the back door, shame on you clubs who started this mess off and hope the 5 grand it cost you in appeals was worth it.

[bill]

I hope when the season eventually starts, that the likes of Risca and Pontyclun get absolutley battered week in week out(every other team in the league will know that they have held all this up and use it against them) There will be no option but to suffer permanent relegation from the league!

[Counting Crows]

Everybody keeps saying 'we' are the laughing stock. 'Others' are laughing at us.

I hadn't realised people around the world were on the edge of their seats awaiting the WL fixture list

I mean this story isn't even carried on the WL website. How many people outside Wales actually knows about this or indeed cares? I think some people have an inflated view of themselves and the WL

Keep on saying it though...it's not like it'll make a difference...

Until the powers that run the league care enough to run it properly, why should the likes of Risca and Pontyclun care for anyone bar themselves?

Call me cynical like...

[Rookie The Rook]

Quote: I think some people have an inflated view of themselves and the WL

Oi!!! Counting Crows. I take it that you inclued yourself in your statement. My God, what an absolute arse you are.

Wind your neck in, you are an embarrassment.